Matt (00:01.529)
Hello everybody and welcome to the Latter Day Lens. It is so good to have you with us today. I am your host, Matt, and with me today is Sean and Mark. Mark, tell us again what's going on this weekend. I think it's exciting.

Marc (00:11.16)
Bye.

Marc (00:17.131)
yes, the third, fourth, and fifth of July at Sarah Park in Orem. That's Sarah with a C for some reason. Not... There's an S, it's confusing. I don't understand. But there's a huge colonial heritage festival, biggest colonial anything west of the Mississippi every year. There'll be like 300 artisans, reenactors, and crafts people, and things for the whole family, including aspiring, and... I mean, I'll be there, so...

Matt (00:26.733)
haha

Marc (00:44.643)
You just have to come see the British camp, which is better anyway.

Shawn (00:48.681)
Ha ha ha ha.

Matt (00:49.303)
And you're going to be in the 33rd regiment, is that right?

Marc (00:52.089)
Yes sir, 33rd regiment afoot.

Matt (00:54.531)
There you go. So if you guys are in the Provo-Orem area, if they're in that area, Mark, they know what Sarah is. They know how to spell Sarah. Yeah.

Shawn (00:55.369)
That is so cool.

Marc (01:02.412)
Yeah, it's Era Charlie Echo Romeo Alpha.

Matt (01:07.171)
Check it out. And you can also drop by the Stadium of Fire either before or after you go to the Colonial.

Shawn (01:11.999)
my goodness. I've never been to the stadium of fire. I never had heard of it until we got to the Provo MTC for a mission and you came up with kind of a song like the first Russian words you learned for some reason were stadium of fire and they go like this. Go ahead.

Matt (01:19.459)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Matt (01:29.411)
Daddy on a Gnarr!

Shawn (01:31.103)
And you would dance around the MTC singing that and you were my companion and I just thought, man, this dude's a goofball.

Matt (01:34.457)
Ha

Matt (01:38.617)
I didn't invent the theme song for the Stadium of Fire. I just learned it in Russian. It's a big deal and we could see it from the MTC. Like what is there to do in the MTC besides look forward to the Stadium of Fire fireworks?

Marc (01:45.9)
Yeah.

Shawn (01:52.435)
What do you mean man? That was a magical spiritual place. It was wonderful. Enough for you. You were bored. You were bored.

Matt (01:56.289)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, my son is doing home MTC this week and I'm, I'm bored vicariously for him every day. I'm like, how was the MTC? And he's like, it's pretty boring. Pretty boring. But

Shawn (02:06.697)
Ha ha ha.

Shawn (02:13.107)
Just for clarity, Matt doesn't think missions are boring or the church. He just didn't like the MTC. He was just so excited to get out into the field to serve and to work.

Matt (02:21.581)
That's right. Mark, did you think the MTC was boring?

Marc (02:24.296)
Yana Gavaborusky.

Matt (02:25.753)
That's about what Sean learned to say in the MTC. That's about as far we would have speak your language and Sean would say that over and over and over again. And I'm like, that's not helping you learn Russian.

Shawn (02:26.451)
Hahaha

Marc (02:37.421)
My friend, he's a World War II Soviet reenactor and he'll jump over the German trenches and scream, I'M A RUSSIAN! And if they're terrified, they don't know he's screaming, I DO NOT SPEAK RUSSIAN!

Matt (02:44.857)
You

Shawn (02:45.065)
Yeah

Matt (02:49.145)
All right. Yeah, yeah, it was good. It was nice. All right, well, we're going to get to the mailbag. One listener, Sean, was not at all pleased with you and Linda and what you had to say about voucher programs in Utah. So this person wrote in and said, the school vouchers conversation was beyond frustrating. In public schools, bikes, computers, et cetera, serve multiple students.

Marc (02:51.425)
But I like the MPC. Good news.

Shawn (03:02.992)
I know. Holy cow, I know.

Matt (03:15.811)
But voucher families keep these supplies after graduation instead of leaving them for future students. Public funds should stay in public schools because they're accountable to community oversight and decision-making, which isn't possible with voucher schemes. As Matt smartly noted, this serves the community's best interest. If everyone without kids in public schools got their money back, the public would suffer affecting everyone. School supplies are used collectively, so money diverted from schools reduces their buying power.

Historically, when public schooling became the norm, living standards improved. Channeling money to charters, homeschooling, and private schools, often poorly run, will increase societal inequality. Hurrah, hurrah to the listener. Thank you for being smart and noting that I am too.

Shawn (03:57.755)
Hahaha

Shawn (04:03.581)
It's a great point. They make great points. But you know, I tend to lean towards more freedom in our society with some consequences than I do towards people who have all the money and power deciding what's best for everyone.

Matt (04:11.683)
Mm-hmm.

Freedom to-

Matt (04:19.853)
Your freedom is tax everybody and just give it to other people. Cause that's what the Utah program does, right? Everyone pays their taxes and then they give it to certain families and not to other families.

Shawn (04:24.329)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

If what? Yeah.

But that's an element of government that will never go away. That happens at every level of government, right? Whether it's charity or it's taking care of the poor or it's, There's the whole, of course that's a part of society. It's not gonna be equitable.

Matt (04:46.903)
If you're saying that you want public education to be a form of welfare, that seems like a different kind of an argument.

Shawn (04:54.431)
No, I'm just saying that there's lots of elements of society where Matt pays taxes and then your money goes to someone else who didn't pay taxes. So if you're making that argument for the schools, I mean, are you going to hold that standard across the board?

Matt (05:01.395)
Yeah. Okay.

Matt (05:09.389)
Well, what I'm going to say is thanks listener for writing in. If you, if you wrote into the show and I didn't read your, your message, it's because you didn't praise me the way that this listener praised me and you didn't attack Sean.

Shawn (05:12.159)
You

Matt (05:28.065)
Okay, let's get to the thought provoker. So did you guys ever read Rich Dad Poor Dad? Or have you guys heard of this book? Rich Dad Poor Dad?

Shawn (05:35.143)
skim I skimmed it.

Marc (05:36.875)
heard of it, but who needs it? Just pay your tithing.

Matt (05:38.563)
Yeah, I don't know.

Matt (05:42.329)
Well, the guy who wrote that book, his name's Robert Kiyosaki. He has warned recently of impending hyperinflation in the United States. He predicted a financial wipeout for millions due to factors like weak demand for U.S. bonds and the Moody's downgrade of the credit rating for the United States. combat this, he recommends investing in gold, silver and Bitcoin because he thinks prices are going to increase significantly for these assets. So I don't care about if you want to buy Bitcoin or gold or silver.

What I want to know is this, are you guys worried about hyperinflation in the United States? And what should we do to protect ourselves against economic downturns?

Marc (06:19.627)
Sure, I am worried about all the inflation. Hyper or just regular ADHD, any of it is bad. And it's in the days of Ben Franklin, a stamp was one cent. In the days of Abraham Lincoln, a stamp was one cent. In the days of Eddie Roosevelt, a stamp was one cent. And then Woodrow Wilson said, hey,

Shawn (06:22.013)
Mark, you want to take it first?

Marc (06:44.571)
I think we can make this better with taxes, Federal Reserves, IRS, the whole thing, let's go, and now a stamp is $17.42 each. I may be a little off on the number, but the point is, it's been a problem ever since, so the way to fix it is get rid of the Federal Reserve, get rid of the IRS and the income tax, and just go back to states doing what they do best, which is taking care of their people, and the government doing what it does best, which is nothing.

Shawn (06:53.983)
Ha ha ha!

Shawn (07:13.029)
Wow, that was great, Mark!

Marc (07:15.605)
Thank you.

Matt (07:15.937)
The government going back to doing nothing.

Shawn (07:18.643)
Hahaha

Matt (07:22.123)
Alright, what do you say, Sean?

Shawn (07:26.249)
Wow. I didn't expect that Mark. I did not expect that. That was interesting. Yeah. mean, mean, Matt, if you're looking for the latter day lens here, like hasn't the message for so many years been the same thrift, productivity, charity, live within your means, very little debt, only for maybe your home, avoid financial bondage, right? There's been a really ubiquitous and consistent message from the church, the latter day lens, correct? Yeah.

Marc (07:29.771)
See you in the next one.

Matt (07:53.539)
Sure. the, yeah, the church always has the same message. Don't spend everything you earn, save stuff for a rainy day, get out of debt as fast as you can.

Shawn (08:03.453)
Yeah. I mean, if I mean, whether inflation happens or hyperinflation happens or not, I don't think the answer is like, I'm surprised. I'm surprised at me that Matt, I'm surprised at you because Robert Kiyosaki would be to finance what Ben Shapiro is to journalism. And yet here you are quoting him. It's crazy to me. I don't know. No.

Matt (08:23.139)
Well, no, I mean, we can talk about things Ben Shapiro says. it's, I wasn't saying like.

Shawn (08:27.279)
You never allow us to talk about Ben Shapiro. Not in your class and not on the podcast. Is that true?

Matt (08:30.519)
I just don't know what he says, that's all.

Students in my classes regularly tell me what Ben Shapiro says. And what's the other dude? Charlie, Charlie buckets, Charlie, Charlie, Charlie Kirk. Yeah, I always hear what he has to say about things too.

Shawn (08:43.273)
Kirk. Charlie Kirk.

Shawn (08:50.163)
Well, so I'm just saying like, like bringing up, I know it's just context for the question, but, like, like following the trends and the, you know, the, the big names of the day and their financial advice, right? I can find just as many Dave Ramsey's out there who would counter what Robert Kiyosaki says in the warnings or what to do about, you know, inflation or whatever, as I can Robert Kiyosaki. So I don't know if the trends follow the trends in the latest, you know,

Matt (09:17.817)
Yeah, but Sean, you remember when we got to Ukraine, if you had a million coupons, coupon was the currency of Ukraine at the time, a million coupons was the equivalent of like 20 US dollars, right? So when we got to Ukraine, there were people that had saved their entire lives. And if you had the equivalent of a million rubles, it was worth basically nothing when we got there. And when we got to Ukraine, cash and currency was worthless. The only people that were happy were people that actually owned things.

Shawn (09:29.183)
Yeah.

Matt (09:47.063)
because those things retain their value in a hyperinflationary situation. So the truth is like, you can save and save and save and put however much you want in your 401k. If hyperinflation makes the dollar worthless, then you're out of luck no matter how hard you saved.

Shawn (10:02.227)
Yeah, but your question is what do we do about it? Your question is what should the government do about it, right?

Matt (10:05.932)
Yeah!

Right, what should we do about it? like, I think that there were some people in Ukraine that were paying attention to the markets and paying attention to what was going on. That when hyperinflation started and they said, hey, we're going to do a shock or whatever, they moved all of their assets into something that was going to be safe from that inflation. But the people that didn't do that lost everything. And I think that it's very possible, like Mark said, right? Like what...

the price of a stamp, how that's going up, price of everything's going up in prices. And if your solution to that is just save and save and save, it's not necessarily gonna protect you against that. So the reason he says put it in Bitcoin is because Bitcoin so far is the place you can hide your money that's not trapped by any currency, right? Or gold and silver. Those seem to be ways to hedge against.

Shawn (10:56.731)
Are you promoting? Are you promoting it?

Matt (11:00.173)
I'm not promoting. mean, that's what people do when you say, I don't trust the dollar. I don't trust the yen. I don't trust the peso. Put it in gold and silver and then whatever currency ends up strong in the end, can put it, you can go there. That's why he's saying to do that.

Shawn (11:11.817)
But you're right. But are you promoting that? you agree with him?

Matt (11:16.537)
Shawn (11:17.695)
Your question is what would you do? What should we do? What should we as members of the church as individuals do?

Matt (11:20.921)
Well, this is a fight I have with my wife all the time because she says what we should do is we should save our money for a rainy day. And I say we should do the Dave, although this isn't a hundred percent Dave Ramsey, but we should do the Dave Ramsey approach and put all of our money in real estate. And as much as the bank will lend you in money, put all that in real estate because the real estate is going to go up in value. And when the dollar is not worth anything.

Shawn (11:25.567)
you

Shawn (11:42.943)
Yeah

Matt (11:46.521)
You owe, I don't know, $450,000 on a home that's worth like 1.5 million. then, right, that's how Dave Ramsey did it. He put all his money in real estate. My wife says, no, I don't want to have that much debt. And I'm like, when the dollar is worthless, who cares what you owe the bank?

Shawn (11:55.359)
Sure. Yeah.

Shawn (12:02.786)
So you're talking about specific strategies here, right? And like you said, for every Robert Kiyosaki, there's a Dave Ramsey, right? And there's good advice, but none of them have this magical crystal ball or a pure revelation to first to know what is right. So isn't it perhaps the best advice? Because the church doesn't just say, save your money. That's not what they say. They don't say, put it in a bank account. They say, invest it wisely. And maybe your real estate solution is a wise investment.

or maybe like I don't know, certain index, like index funds have proven out over time to be pretty safe, right?

Matt (12:34.585)
They, did.

Marc (12:38.855)
Ammunition is a good investment.

Matt (12:39.213)
Sean the Church does? Go ahead, Mark.

Shawn (12:43.144)
You

Matt (12:43.289)
100%, that stuff, yeah, way valuable right now. I don't think they say put it in a wise investment, They say you should save, you should have like a six month fund and then you should invest for like long-term retirement. So there is some invest, and then they say you should give everything extra to the poor.

Shawn (13:01.073)
I've read, I read recently just in preparation for this, lots of references where it says invest wisely. There are ways to safely and invest wisely.

Matt (13:10.019)
Hmm. Well, I'm gonna always say follow the church's counsel on this because even if you end up in a bad spot financially, which is possible, at least you'll feel like you were doing what you were supposed to do as your life crumbles around you.

Shawn (13:25.053)
I mean, Mark, what do you got?

Marc (13:28.2)
agreement. Do what the church encourages. Be wise. Don't be commanded in all things, obviously. So it says invest. Does that mean buy ammunition, buy cigarettes to for goods at the prison that Donald Trump's going to put us all in just because we say his name wrong? You know, be ready, but be ready wisely. It's up to you. Just pay your tithing, save, and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matt (13:46.489)
You

Shawn (13:57.133)
Interesting nice faithful approach. Yeah, it is

Matt (13:57.419)
I like it. That's the latter day lens, Sean. There's not a scripture for that, that's what you that's the right way to do it.

Marc (14:02.993)
What I said, you're welcome.

Matt (14:05.753)
the part that resonated most was that I could go to prison for saying Donald Trump's name the wrong way that was the part that made me-

Shawn (14:11.323)
Hahaha

Marc (14:12.74)
It's a bigly sized issue.

Matt (14:15.257)
All right, next topic. The latest job numbers that came out in May of this year, they show that some industries are doing really well, like financial activities, that's a broad category that means things like real estate and insurance. Their unemployment rate is 2.7%. Education and health services also has really low unemployment at 2.7%. But other industries are doing much worse. So leisure and hospitality,

Shawn (14:16.799)
you

Matt (14:44.035)
has an unemployment rate of 6.4%, wholesale and retail trade has an unemployment of 5.1%, the information sector, which is like broadcasting and motion pictures and publishing, also has a high unemployment rate. So my question is this, both Biden and Trump promised an economy that would help everyone, but it seems clear to me that Trump's policies are having predictable effects on employment in certain sectors. So is it possible,

for the government to create policies that truly benefit everyone, or are there always gonna be winners and losers and we should just choose the one we want?

Shawn (15:19.935)
What do think Mark? You wanna take it?

Marc (15:21.351)
I'd be honored, yes. And there will always be losers, especially if the government is doing it, because it's not their responsibility to make jobs for people and to make economies for people. It's their job to protect the people in their life, liberty, and their property. And they are at liberty to hire, to fire, to build a company or to not build a company. And the people who get the most whiny and complainy are the people who don't do anything and they expect the government to do it for them. Ergo...

We need to teach them the hard lesson of reality, is government is not your friend. The government does not make jobs or give you... just shut up you people. darn it. I didn't order land. I just kind of...

Matt (16:02.137)
But don't...

Shawn (16:02.941)
Mike, you're, Mark, you're on point on the eve of your reenactments. You are on point, man. You're on fire preaching it. This is great.

Matt (16:09.337)
But wait a minute, Elon Musk's wealth is largely derived from government money. There are plenty of like Mark Zuckerberg, right? And plenty of government contractors out there. Their money comes from the government investing in certain sectors. The oil companies all get subsidies from the federal government. Farmers get subsidies from the federal government. So the...

Marc (16:13.733)
Oops.

Marc (16:17.799)
Wrong.

Shawn (16:31.9)
Yeah, all of which, I think Mark and I would agree, are not great. Those aren't good things. None of it.

Marc (16:37.369)
Agreed.

Matt (16:38.585)
But they're not whining, they're getting money from the government that's helping them to be successful.

Shawn (16:42.407)
Of course they're getting the money. Of course they're gonna whine. That doesn't mean it's right.

Matt (16:48.705)
I look at my friends that are farmers and they have this insurance that if their crop fails, they get paid as if their crop didn't fail from like the federal government money. So they're taking no risk when they're, well, I think that then politics really is just about deciding who's gonna make sure my side wins, right? Like if I'm in the movie industry right now, I'd say, no, Trump's on the other side. He doesn't like the motion picture association or whatever.

Shawn (16:58.131)
Yes. So why are you defending that?

Marc (17:18.167)
And now he doesn't avoid his ambassador to Hollywood, so...

Matt (17:18.285)
But he sure

Shawn (17:23.167)
Ha ha ha ha ha. John Voight.

Matt (17:25.697)
So I think that in some ways, politics is really just about choosing the side that's gonna give you the benefits when they win and hoping that the other side doesn't win because they're not gonna give you benefits.

Shawn (17:36.467)
Are you okay? If that's the nature of things, Matt, it sounds like you're okay with that. Cause it's like, that's just reality, right? Is that kind of what you're teaching here? So, so, so your answer is there will always be winners and losers. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I like that. I thought you'd take the different approach. and I was ready to throw second if I four 34 at you. I put, I've trusted in the, the Lord.

Matt (17:44.599)
Yeah, I think that that's reality. think like...

Matt (17:51.199)
Always. There's always going to be winners and losers.

Matt (17:58.265)
Matt (18:02.118)
what does that say?

Shawn (18:05.811)
and I will trust in thee forever, I will not put my trust in the armor of the flesh. And thinking that the government can solve everything for us is putting your trust in the armor of the flesh.

Marc (18:15.247)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (18:16.513)
I think what happens is some people believe the government's going to do things for them and then they find out, actually you voted for the guy that's not on your side or you voted for the woman that's not on your side. Right. And I feel like sometimes people find out a little too late that politicians will promise things to people that they're not actually going to do. Right. They'll be like, wait, he said he was going to look out for people like me, but really they're not going to look out for people like you.

Shawn (18:24.127)
yeah.

Marc (18:41.391)
Well, it's like you said, there will always be winners and losers because under Joe Biden, the employment for transgender, dressed, stealing, nuclear physicists went through the roof. That number one guy. Donald Trump, steel manufacturing is seeing its bump and all that kind of stuff. So it's the balance. But if government would just do its own job, which is nothing, then who cares? Everyone could win.

Matt (18:52.375)
Yes. Yeah.

Matt (19:06.851)
Huh. That seems so idealistic, Mark. Could you really, if you were president of the United States and you had control of trillions of dollars, could you really just be like, yeah, we're just going to pay down our debt. We're not going to, really?

Marc (19:20.515)
Yeah.

I'd buy a little bit of reenacting stuff for myself and then I'm dead.

Matt (19:25.944)
You

Matt (19:30.105)
I hope you run for president mark. That'd be so good

Marc (19:32.417)
As as I start quoting mine in I'd be in lot of trouble, so...

Matt (19:37.465)
You're like, when I say we need to go back to the founding, I'm not just talking constitution. I'm talking. And then you could get dressed up in shows. I'm talking this. And people will be like, wow, I could get behind that.

Marc (19:51.694)
which you know I saw a bit recently that was discussing about Adolf Hitler. It has him standing in the back of the truck with his arm out and it says that it's been grossly misinterpreted this whole time. All he was doing was giving directions. no, no, down the road, take the Third Reich.

Shawn (20:07.145)
Hahaha

Marc (20:11.277)
That's what Elon Musk was doing. He was saying my heart is down there on the Third Reich. Take a right there.

Matt (20:15.975)
You

Matt (20:19.759)
man. All right, so then the Latter-day Lens is, Sean gave it to us. We should not ask the government for help. We should trust in God.

Marc (20:27.864)
Here here. Ezra Ta- is cheering that, so don't disagree with it Sean, cause you're winning right now.

Shawn (20:30.099)
No.

Shawn (20:35.487)
Yeah.

I I mean, but no, I don't think it is that exactly, right? Because like you, I think the reality is what you explained perfectly, Matt. There's always gonna be winners and losers depending on who you voted for. And they'll always surprise us. Trump surprises us every day, doing something different than he promised, doing something different than is expected. So he's always, someone's always gonna be let down. If we ever put our trust in that, yeah, we're always gonna dis-

Matt (21:02.519)
Mark, has Trump surprised you or has Trump being largely who you thought you were voting for?

Marc (21:07.152)
I surprised on an occasion here and there. Like with Iran, I thought, no, here we go, and then it ends up working every time, so he's got something.

Matt (21:17.505)
Okay, well then let's talk about Iran. So I saw his speech. He was pretty clear in his speech that the Iran's nuclear sites were obliterated and that their program has been severely damaged by recent US strikes. But the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei of Iran downplayed the damage, claiming the attacks were unable to do anything important and that President Trump had exaggerated their effectiveness. So this makes me have two questions. The first is

Does this illustrate the importance of being completely honest in everything we do? Because I'm telling you, I don't know who's right about that. If I were in Iran and I would believe the Ayatollah, right? Because he's my religious leader. And so I'd say, OK, I believe what he's saying. But.

Shawn (21:56.318)
Matt.

Shawn (22:02.643)
Matt, Matt being our political scientist, does propaganda have a role in a proper government?

Matt (22:08.043)
No, no, no, no. Well, you can't ask, that's a different question, Sean, but we can get to that in a second.

Shawn (22:12.383)
Well, well, well, but it's I mean, okay. All right, that's fine.

Matt (22:15.907)
Propaganda is anti-democratic.

Shawn (22:20.041)
But isn't what they're doing, both of them just propaganda. They are trying to play a game where they're trying to control the minds of the masses in the way that they want it to be perceived. That's just propaganda, right?

Matt (22:31.523)
Yeah, so I think that propaganda is bad because, okay, we'll ask about the other question in a second. Propaganda is bad because you lose credibility with people that are paying attention. So everybody knows that Donald Trump is way into propaganda and they know that the Ayatollah is way into propaganda. So what that means is that nobody who's like thoughtful and paying attention trusts either one of them. They've lost all credibility because they engage in so much propaganda that they're not seen as people of integrity who are going to tell you the truth.

Shawn (23:00.809)
So this perfectly relates to your question, right? Because if propaganda is a form of lying or dishonesty, then your question really boils down to, should a government engage in propaganda or not?

Matt (23:12.889)
Well, but this isn't the only example of the two people lying, right? so this like, sure, in this case, it's propaganda, perhaps. But there are people that, yeah, so I don't know, like, don't you think that, okay, so then the second question is, should we place a higher priority on honesty when we're choosing the political leaders we want to support? Because in my view, like lying to people has no proper role in a democratic system. If your whole

Shawn (23:17.3)
Yeah.

Matt (23:42.585)
idea of representation is I'm going lie to people so that they'll vote for me, then you're not really trying to represent them. Now go ahead, Mark.

Marc (23:47.266)
Define propaganda.

Matt (23:54.265)
Propaganda would be exaggerating the truth or lying about what's really happening to make things look like to make reality appear to be something that it's not.

Shawn (24:04.787)
political gain, right? For political positioning.

Matt (24:07.353)
Well, yeah, there'll be political propaganda, right?

Marc (24:09.93)
Who is the terminator of what's propaganda versus just genuinely saying, this was really good.

Matt (24:17.889)
Well, mean, propaganda, like there's, there's examples of different forms of propaganda that people use, right? In the different ways that they do it. but you know, if you're, if your job is like being a hype person to hype up the crowd or to hype some product, in some ways you're just a propagandist.

Marc (24:34.027)
But who determined that propaganda is wrong?

Matt (24:37.695)
I just said it doesn't have a good role in government and representation. it's like, like in its core propaganda is deceptive, right? So if my, if I view my role as an elected official of deceiving the people I represent, then that means that I don't trust them to support me if they knew what was really going on.

Marc (24:42.721)
It's kind of.

Shawn (25:07.43)
Yeah. What do you think, Mark?

Marc (25:07.841)
Yeah, it's the thing where it's a hiccup for me is it's the same cliche line about isn't it convenient that good guys win every war? Because it feels like there's always going to be propaganda. It's not something that we just don't do. It's just like our last conversation. The ideal would be government is not really getting involved in employment or anything like that. But the reality is it is. So I'd rather just have some good propaganda.

It'll be entertaining.

Matt (25:39.321)
No doubt it's entertaining, but so if we use like the church as an analogy, if we realize at some point, church leaders are not telling us the truth as they see the truth, but they're trying to highlight the positive aspects of everything, or they're coloring everything they say to make things look a certain way. They're not, right? It would suggest to me, they don't trust me that they could just tell me the way things really are.

Shawn (25:39.967)
Ha ha!

Matt (26:07.159)
and that the Holy Ghost would lead me to the same conclusion that they're being led to. And so.

Marc (26:11.905)
The claim that the exmo people would make is that that's exactly what they do because for example and was it 33 I think when they straight out denied there is no such thing as the John Taylor revelation on plural marriage that they just said well yeah we've had it or I can't think of any others off the top of my head there have been times so is it possible the church does engage in propaganda

Matt (26:30.158)
Yeah.

Matt (26:36.557)
Well, so what I'm saying is the reason that that XML argument resonates with people is because propaganda, if you're in a leadership position and you feel like you need to engage in propaganda to persuade people or hide information to persuade people, then it suggests that you don't have confidence enough in your own position. That's why it resonates with people.

Marc (26:57.918)
Well, in the defense of other people, there are claims that if you go to sacrament meeting, there will be good talks.

Matt (27:04.729)
Sure

Marc (27:07.38)
That... That just doesn't happen. We all know-

Matt (27:09.945)
Well, so what I'm saying is like in a democratic society, we should aspire to leadership or representatives that are going to rather than them deciding what should happen and then trying to manipulate information in such a way that we think that what they did, what we wanted them to do, they should be trying to figure out what we want them to do and then letting us know like this is what I'm doing. And I understand it makes it harder to

It makes for more difficult and challenging conversations, but it's the more honest way of integrity of handling things.

Shawn (27:45.215)
Matt, do you feel like during the Cold War, the propaganda was a useful tool that the US, you know, to promote the difference between the communist communities and societies compared to ours and showing that they were, you know, we have so much better and it works so much better. You feel like that was useful or no?

Matt (28:03.755)
I do not. I never think the propaganda is okay.

Shawn (28:07.421)
I like that this turned into a debate between propaganda because I've always been my gut says, yeah, how can it be right? It's just lying. How could it be possibly right? But then my other side says, well, there's some real utility in it. Right. If you're at the top of power.

Matt (28:20.963)
Well, you should be happy that it morphed into that because you're the one that made that happen, Sean. We weren't talking about that until you...

Shawn (28:26.653)
Yeah. It relates. Your question was do we need honest people in government? And I naturally thought that meant propaganda.

Matt (28:37.433)
Yeah, that's because what you do for a living is propaganda,

Shawn (28:41.375)
It is not.

Matt (28:44.419)
What do do for a living, Sean? Okay, yeah, it's propaganda. Mark and I agree.

Shawn (28:46.099)
branding and marketing.

Marc (28:47.359)
That's probably.

Shawn (28:50.303)
That shows that shows both of your ignorance about what my branding and marketing is

Marc (28:54.705)
I think it shows some ignorance about what propaganda is because propaganda is bad. I think I'm pro propaganda. I think it unites people.

Shawn (28:58.428)
hahahahah

Matt (29:02.807)
Yeah, right. Mark, Mark, tell Sean how marketing is propaganda.

Marc (29:11.135)
I don't know what companies you've marketed for, but let's say you market for McDonald's, you're going to say, our burger is so much better. And then you'll go to, don't know who actually McDonald's is my favorite. Okay. Like for Burger King.

Shawn (29:22.559)
All right, how about how about this? How about this? No, no, no. How about counterpoint? McDonald's has never said our hamburger so much better. All they say is 10 trillion people have eaten our hamburger. And by saying the truth, people assume that their hamburger is better. How do you like that?

Marc (29:36.8)
How about this? No one out pizzas the hut!

Matt (29:41.45)
You

Shawn (29:41.759)
But I mean literally taking those words into account it's true. It's true. No one outpeaches the bud

Marc (29:48.191)
Yeah, everyone in the... I... my friend made a bagel pizza home scratch. That outpizzed the hut.

Matt (29:57.177)
Lots of people out pizza the hut.

Shawn (30:03.217)
Matt, I really didn't want to give this towards propaganda, but I would definitely say that the answer to your question is everyone should have supported Mitt Romney. Everyone should support Mitt Romney. Bring him back into politics and you've got honest leaders. There you go.

Matt (30:17.785)
I personally would prefer that we have a process of selecting leaders that doesn't involve campaigns and elections and then we could get good people in office to represent us that would have no incentive to engage in propaganda. Mark can tell you, he knows.

Shawn (30:28.435)
How do you do that? How do you do that?

Marc (30:34.757)
In essence, we all need to break from the Republican and Democrat vice hold that they have on us and go for third parties and let the third parties be the springboard for honesty and integrity and good issues ergo, I've recently read, not read, I'm having a stroke, registered for the Constitution Party.

Matt (30:56.963)
Wow, that isn't what I thought Mark was gonna say. I was gonna say, do you know, there's no propaganda on a jury. There's nobody that comes out on a jury and is like super crazy about, here's what happened in our deliberation process. The people on a jury always tell you exactly what happened when they were on a jury. Why? Because they're randomly selected to serve on a jury. And if you have random selection of representation, you get rid of all of the craziness in politics and you have good people that serve.

Shawn (30:58.227)
That's interesting.

Marc (31:25.032)
How did you think I was going to say that?

Shawn (31:25.343)
You

Matt (31:31.341)
Because Mark is a student of ancient Greece and all of these weird old systems of government and how they used to do things.

Marc (31:36.062)
Thank you.

Shawn (31:37.641)
Did they used to do that? Did Greece used to do that?

Marc (31:42.845)
I don't know, I study King George III and a certain Austrian painter that I'm not allowed to say his name twice in one show.

Matt (31:46.155)
You

Shawn (31:51.185)
Matt, has there ever been a successful government that did it that way?

Matt (31:55.255)
Yes, ancient Greece did it that way. In fact, that's where the word idiot comes from. An idiot was the person who was selected to serve in the Senate and chose not to fulfill their duty of serving in the Senate.

Marc (31:59.998)
HMM

Shawn (32:08.741)
that's interesting. Okay.

Matt (32:09.241)
Yeah, you don't have to have propaganda in politics, but it's true. If you want to do it like this where you're going to try and get popular support and get people to vote for you and all of that sort of stuff, that kind of a system rewards people who engage in, for Sean's sake, marketing and branding. But really, propagate.

Marc (32:30.494)
I support that idea entirely. Just have the common man serve for have term limits and have everyone register so that we don't have schizophrenics or something be the congressman. Well then again they'd probably fit in.

Matt (32:35.01)
Right.

Matt (32:48.749)
Yeah, they'll be fine. They'll be okay.

Shawn (32:50.153)
But Matt, you've argued in the past that we need, for example, certain perks and incentives to attract the best kind of people to these leadership roles. This goes against that. Which one do you prefer?

Matt (33:01.995)
Well, sure. If listen, if you if it's a duty that you're performing, right? It's your civic responsibility to go just like we do with jury duty. We have to like take some time out of our lives to go serve on the jury or whatever. If you have to take some time out of your life to go serve your term in the Senate or the City Council or whatever, then you still get good people serving in those positions and they are more representative because they know that when they're not in power, the rules and laws that they make are going to affect their lives in some way.

and that they don't even have a chance to get back into power and save themselves.

Shawn (33:34.163)
Well, you're good at making people think map it. you truly would you truly support that system?

Matt (33:38.649)
Yes, I would, 100%. And if I were president, I would randomly appoint judges. It would just be random selection. Whoever, you're a registered person, right? We have to register for selective service or whatever. Just pull a name out of the hat. You're nominated to be a court justice.

Shawn (33:40.275)
Wow, fascinating. Okay, interesting. You with two mark?

Marc (33:41.181)
I

Shawn (33:58.259)
I mean, it's such... Go ahead, Mark.

Marc (33:58.32)
is

Isn't that what Joe Biden was doing?

Matt (34:03.097)
That's why I loved him so much.

Shawn (34:03.327)
Matt, it's such an interesting, I don't think this is the solution to solving honesty in politics. It's not like, close your eyes and pick a name and all of a sudden you've magically picked someone who's gonna be honest, who isn't tempted by power, who isn't tempted by enriching themselves by power. Like that's ridiculous.

Matt (34:11.821)
Why?

Matt (34:17.219)
Yes!

You can't get tempted by that because you know that when you're gone, you have to pay like you're just an average citizen, just like everybody else. So go ahead and take bribes or whatever if you want while you're in office, but you're gonna end up someday not being in office. And that makes people much more conscientious about what they do when they're in elected position, when they know that they won't be.

Shawn (34:39.827)
Yeah, but then you, yeah, but you've seen the pattern when you're not in office, you can write a book. You can get paid to do like, tell everyone what happened. That's what happens.

Matt (34:48.825)
Sean, do you see jurors writing books? Do you see jurors benefiting off of being on a jury trial? not really very many of them. You have to get randomly selected to a really big jury that has a lot of public interest or something like that. And even then, even the Karen Reed trial, I think maybe three jurors have spoken out and only one of them used their real name, because they would rather just not be known as the juror on the Karen Reed trial.

Shawn (34:51.975)
Yes!

Shawn (34:55.462)
Absolutely.

Shawn (35:18.879)
I mean, there's a lot of I could I could just give you a list of how many jurors have made a ton of money. OJ Simpson trial several jurors including Amanda Cooley, Carrie Best, Marsha, blah, blah, all these people have written books and made lots of money. The Scott Peterson trial, the Michael Jackson trial.

Marc (35:32.945)
You add those names.

Matt (35:35.893)
Okay. So, but they had to get randomly selected to be on a really high profile jury for that to happen.

Shawn (35:41.107)
Yeah, but yeah, but random selection is never going to produce honesty. Never. That's not the solution.

Matt (35:46.829)
Well, you have to you have to educate people. You have to like value honesty as a society. But it seems to me like branding and marketing and propaganda isn't giving us a whole lot of honest people running for office.

Shawn (35:58.847)
Yeah, but at least you have some vision of what you're getting like that's riskier to not know what this randomly selected person is all about What if you get what if you get the subway kid? What's his name? Jared Vogel I a pure looking face that guys it turns out he's a monster So if that guy's randomly selected Matt would be like, yeah, look at him. Just look at him He's an honest guy when in fact, he's a total monster

Marc (36:06.172)
That's a f-

Matt (36:09.763)
Jared?

Marc (36:21.857)
And you would also be removing the agency of the people to choose their leaders.

Shawn (36:26.995)
Yes, correct.

Matt (36:30.393)
Take it.

Marc (36:31.748)
It was a good idea, but it's a bad idea.

Matt (36:36.023)
All right, well, we could go with Mark's idea to join the Constitution Party. I think that they're looking for leaders right now. I think there's a lot of opportunity to grow in the Constitution Party right now. I bet any of our listener, wherever they're at, could just go up to the Constitution Party and say, I want to join and then say, you're the leader.

Shawn (36:44.826)
Hahaha

Marc (36:46.204)
What the?

Shawn (36:56.017)
Hahaha

Marc (36:57.894)
Technically Joel Skousen is the current leader. He was candidate for president.

Matt (37:01.795)
Yeah.

You're the precinct committee chair, you're the precinct chairperson for your region. You're the county chair wherever you happen to live.

Marc (37:11.739)
Well can do that with either of parties. Nobody actually does anything political. They just vote. They don't care. I was a rep... precinct committeeman in Idaho.

Matt (37:16.727)
Yeah, that's That's true.

Yeah, that's true. Okay, here's the big question. I'm really curious what you guys say about this. So there's this controversial project. It's funded by the Wellcome Trust, but it's not welcome the way you think of welcome. It's W-E-L-L-C-O-M-E. They've begun to create artificial human DNA from scratch, aiming to develop treatments for incurable diseases and promote healthier aging by building disease resistant cells

Marc (37:28.675)
No. sorry, go ahead.

Matt (37:52.195)
for organ repair. Synthetic DNA involves constructing parts of the DNA molecule or even an entire genome from individual molecules rather than just reading existing DNA, allowing for novel experimentation and the development of new therapies. However, this research raises significant ethical concerns about potential misuse, such as creating designer babies, biological weapons, or enhanced humans.

Many church members oppose the use of stem cells for this kind of research because that research often begins with embryos. So this seems like an opportunity to genetically engineer cures for diseases without messing around with the reproductive processes. So here's the big question. Is the creation of synthetic DNA something inspired by God for the use and benefit of man or is it mankind attempting to play God?

Shawn (38:48.905)
My goodness, it's so, I hate when you ask these questions. They're so hard to answer and it's so hard to find the latter-day lands. I've got a few things, but I don't know, Matt, if they'll apply. I don't know. It's tough. How do you know? You're not a scientist that is a DNA expert. You don't know if what they're doing is ethical or not, do you? mean, okay, I'll give you my opinion, then I'll wait for you to give you. Go ahead, Mark.

Marc (39:09.978)
Well, I know how to solve this. Random selection of people becomes scientists.

Shawn (39:12.244)
Go ahead.

Hahahaha

Matt (39:17.753)
That's a great idea!

Shawn (39:22.629)
Excellent, Mark, excellent!

Matt (39:27.001)
Alright Sean, keep going.

Shawn (39:28.671)
All right, well, so there is a scripture in the Bible that says, this is 1st Timothy 620, says, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings. And then it says this, and it's very strangely worded, but then the Greek gives us a clear view of what this means. It says, oppositions of science falsely so-called, which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Now, the Greek gives us clarity on that. It means disputations of what is falsely called knowledge.

Matt (39:55.651)
Mm-hmm.

Shawn (39:56.303)
So the Bible's kind of, I think, here warning us that basically saying, look, oftentimes, and we've got some good public examples of this, of scientists who are so arrogant and so godless that they really do claim truth, what is maybe not even good knowledge, right? Who's the dude that is? Who is the guy? Tyson.

Marc (40:16.822)
Anthony Fauci.

Matt (40:22.681)
Stephen Hawking.

Shawn (40:23.999)
Dyson, Tyson someone. Nailed the grass Tyson.

Marc (40:26.029)
Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Matt (40:27.917)
Wait, you don't like him, Sean?

Marc (40:30.722)
Nobody like-

Shawn (40:30.911)
Half the time he's fine and the other half the time he's so arrogant and it is so clear that he's calling truth that which is not clearly truth. But he's just so arrogant about it. So I think there's a warning, obviously in the scriptures, there is a warning that says, look, if you, again, back to putting your trust in the arm of the flesh, it's a risky thing, right? Because not often is mankind absolute. Like science is not a...

Matt (40:32.009)
I love that guy.

Matt (40:41.624)
I see.

Shawn (40:59.071)
Ask any scientists ask Levi Barnes science is not about truth

Matt (41:01.697)
Wait, I'm a scientist, Sean. Ask me, Sean, I'm a scientist.

Shawn (41:05.022)
Okay, good, I'll ask you. Good, good, good. I'll ask you. Is there such a thing, yeah, you're a social scientist, but is there such a thing as in science, is the purpose to discover the absolute knowledge and truth? Is that the purpose? Absolutely not, right? So to claim that this DNA, synthetic DNA is all about, there's a truth to it and there's knowledge to it, there's no way you can do that, right? This is just theory and hypothesis and...

Matt (41:08.345)
You

Matt (41:17.718)
No. No.

Matt (41:31.361)
You can definitely create this synthetic DNA though. Like that's something they can do. Mark will know this quote. Joseph Fielding Smith said that every invention was inspired by the Holy Ghost.

Shawn (41:45.745)
Okay, okay, okay. Give me a primary source for that. Give me a primary source. That's ridiculous what you just said.

Matt (41:47.426)
Is that true, Mark?

Marc (41:53.537)
And so you go to section 9353, and verily I say unto you that it is my will that you should hasten to translate my scriptures and to obtain a knowledge of history and of countries and of kingdoms and of laws of God and man and all this for the salvation of Zion. Amen. So are we using science to study the laws of God and learn what does and does not work? This situation sounds like it. Or are we trying to play God? This doesn't sound like it. It sounds like if

If it's happening, God is certainly permitting it to happen. And if it's for the benefit and increase of quality of life, and it goes without destroying embryos and other things like IV, I, I'm having a stroke. I, IV, what is it? Help me. Baby's in the test tube. IVF. IVF. does result in the loss of many lives through the, that's the baby we'll pick throughout the others. If we can study these things without the destruction of life.

Matt (42:40.352)
in in vitro fertilization.

Marc (42:52.376)
Go for it.

Shawn (42:53.865)
Wow, that's a good standard. That seems like a righteous standard right there. You are, you really are Mark, you are.

Marc (42:57.155)
I am on fire today like-

Matt (42:59.777)
You really do- you don't know this quote from Joseph Fielding Smith.

Marc (43:02.989)
Bye.

Shawn (43:03.087)
Matt's looking for it. If you're going to quote it, Matt, if you're going to quote it, you got to also provide a primary source for it.

Matt (43:04.663)
Yeah, hold on.

Marc (43:09.75)
Joseph Fielding Smith also said we'd never land on the moon, so...

Matt (43:13.177)
Here we go. I've got this. This is a tech dot church of Jesus Christ dot org. Huh? Does that count? okay. No, no, it's it's it's just some blog on the church's tech forum page. Listeners will know though they're going to write in this. I don't have this primary source because I didn't expect to have to defend this.

Marc (43:22.68)
Shawn (43:24.403)
Not as a primary source. Heck no. You read it though, go ahead.

Matt (43:40.515)
But yeah, President Joseph Fielding Smith said that like every invention that's been for the use and benefit of man was inspired by the Holy Ghost and that the Lord inspires scientists to, like this is my extrapolation, the Lord inspires scientists, just like he inspires other people, to come up with things that are useful. And if you think about like the history of mankind and the number of things that have been invented since the restoration of the gospel in 1830,

So many of those things have come because it helps the spread of the gospel and the establishment of the kingdom around the world. So, yeah, go ahead.

Shawn (44:15.455)
Can I challenge that a little bit? Okay, so let's assume your quote is correct and primary source. Let's just assume, right? I'm gonna go back to preaching some doctrine. There's a reason why certain things don't become canonized scripture. There's a reason, right? That would have been a very new piece of revealed doctrine to suggest that anything that gets invented by man is revelation through the Holy Ghost.

Matt (44:23.874)
Okay.

Shawn (44:41.117)
The reason something like that perhaps doesn't become doctrine is because maybe it's not doctrine. Maybe it's just the opinion of a man who happens to be a prophet. No, I mean, this is good. This is clean doctrine. It gives us a way to gauge what is true and what isn't true, what's from God and what isn't from God. So for example, Ozempic, is that from God? According to

Matt (44:55.385)
So then the swing... Uh huh.

Matt (45:01.323)
Yes it is. From God through Novo Nordisk. First Novo Nordisk and then God.

Shawn (45:08.607)
No, could be very easily argued and proven maybe in 10 years time that the negative effects of ozampic are way worse than the positives. Right now it seems like it's pretty positive, right? It helps people lose weight and that mitigates all the bad things that come from the other diseases related to overweight, right? what Mark?

Matt (45:10.531)
Don't you think Ozampak is-

Matt (45:20.12)
Zemp is not good for pithers. Side effects?

Matt (45:25.975)
Yeah.

Marc (45:35.633)
Turns 1.

Matt (45:36.014)
Yeah.

Marc (45:38.593)
Makes them all in the crack attic.

Shawn (45:41.279)
hahahaha

Marc (45:43.127)
Resume's not enough. hitchin'.

Shawn (45:47.101)
Yeah, there's, I don't know if I, there's no way I would support that, that I don't think there's, unless it became scripture, there's no way I would support that statement that anything that man creates is,

Matt (45:51.395)
Alright

Circling back to what Mark said before, this is why that John Taylor revelation didn't matter, right? The church can hide that revelation because it wasn't canonized. So it doesn't matter what John Taylor said as president of the church, it's not canonized, so it's not doctrine, right, John?

Shawn (46:10.175)
I believe that's a proper way that our God has set up his church. think, right? Like if you look at anything that's been any new revelations that haven't become canonized, there's no doctrine that it doesn't settle his doctrine. It doesn't.

Matt (46:16.856)
Okay.

Matt (46:27.691)
Okay, I'm given, it was Joseph Fielding Smith, but I think this has to be Joseph F. Smith. It's October 1926 conference report. He says, I maintain that had there been no restoration of the gospel, no organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there would have been no radio, there would be no airplane, there would have been no wonderful discoveries in medicine, chemistry, electricity, and the many other things where in the world has been benefited by such discoveries. Under such conditions, these blessings would have been withheld.

for they belong to the dispensation of the fullness of times, of which the restoration of the gospel and the organization of the church constitute the central point from which radiates the spirit of the Lord throughout the world. The inspiration of the Lord has gone out and takes hold of the minds of men, though they know it not, and they are directed by the Lord. In this manner, he brings them into his service that his purposes and his righteousness in due time may be supreme on earth. Now let me say briefly that I do not believe for one moment

that these discoveries have come by chance or that they have come because of superior intelligence possessed by men today over those who lived in ages that are past. They have come and are coming because the time is ripe, because the Lord has willed it and because he has poured out his Spirit on all flesh. Huh? That feels like doctrine.

Shawn (47:40.959)
Well done, fine.

Marc (47:43.798)
I didn't know that quote. I thought you were quoting something else. Yeah, I know that one.

Matt (47:48.505)
You

Shawn (47:49.723)
WHAAAT?

Marc (47:51.134)
I had a word.

Matt (47:51.961)
So.

Shawn (47:53.543)
Well done finding the quote, Matt. but I feel like now you're interpreting it a little differently than you represented it.

Matt (48:00.961)
No, what I'm saying is that you just take that forward, right? The reason that we're learning about how to make DNA from scratch is because it's gonna be of some use and benefit to man in the future. And it's not because we're smarter now than people were in the past. Maybe we discovered these initial technologies using embryos and things that people feel is morally wrong to create an embryo for scientific research. But now if you can do synthetic DNA, that could be something inspired by God that says, this is useful for you guys.

Shawn (48:28.799)
But if I study that statement and if I come to believe that it's inspired of God and true, and I can conclude that it means the light and knowledge that comes from the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ has inspired man to do great things, but it doesn't replace the agency that God has given us. Of course mankind can take and build upon the things that light and knowledge has revealed and do bad things with it.

Matt (48:53.177)
Sure. But imagine Sean, if like all of these people that are getting injured in wars, that I can just grow a synthetic arm, right? A DNA matching arm that I just attached to their body and now they have a perfectly good arm again or a perfectly good leg again or heart or whatever.

Shawn (49:07.647)
So your question is specifically about the synthetic DNA thing. Man, that's tough. guess I'll, until there's like big evidence of damage or loss of life, like I'll go with Markov with your statement. If there's proven that there's any loss of life or sacrificing of life, then maybe it's not as good. I don't know, but Matt, you would say, yeah, but if it can save more lives than losing, then maybe it is good.

Matt (49:12.12)
Yeah.

Marc (49:20.969)
Yay.

Matt (49:32.077)
Mostly I'm thinking about Joe Biden. If there was a way to reverse aging so that Joe Biden could like be young and spry and just run again for president of the United States, would be more like a 30 year old than like a 90 year old. I like this idea and I want to promote.

Shawn (49:33.951)
Thank

Marc (49:46.675)
It was, that's what Joe Scarborough said is that the best Joe Biden.

Matt (49:48.825)
We're president Nelson, right? Like he's hurting and stuff. If we could just like put DNA, whatever into his back so that he can walk and feel good. I'm all for that stuff. Like I would love the idea of cause Mark was telling me today that aging is no fun. I love the idea of having DNA treatments that like reverse aging in a way so that people can feel young and healthy even as they get older.

Shawn (49:52.809)
Hahaha!

Marc (50:18.738)
Here's what I'll say, the movie 28 years later, saw it earlier today, made me weep. It was really good. Yeah, has nothing to do with this.

Matt (50:24.299)
Yeah? Okay. Right, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with this at all.

Shawn (50:30.281)
Hahahaha

Marc (50:32.508)
I just didn't have it

Matt (50:32.725)
but I fully appreciate that. Sean, have you watched any good movies lately while we're on the-

Shawn (50:37.567)
You

Matt (50:41.473)
All right, well, I appreciate you guys indulging me in this topic. Listener, we're really curious to know what you think about this. Normally I would let Mark have the last word, but that last one was bad. So you can try again if you want Mark.

Marc (50:53.3)
good movie, it makes perfect. There's a scene. It's beautiful.

Matt (50:57.753)
This is what else

Shawn (50:58.194)
That's awesome.

Matt (51:02.541)
This is what I will say on the subject of movies in the New York times. They have a list of the best a hundred movies that have been made since the year 2000. And it was voted on by actors, producers and directors in Hollywood. And I read through the top 15 today and it was such an awful list that I no longer trust the opinions of people in Hollywood. I was like, are you kidding me? Like,

Marc (51:24.532)
Did you?

Shawn (51:25.567)
And this coming from the man whose favorite movie is Disney's... good one, Matt, good one! Well done, well done. Okay, then I'm with you.

Matt (51:29.827)
Joe versus the volcano. Yeah. Yeah. It had a list of movies I'd never even heard of before. The, think number 15 on the list was something like E2 mama or something like that. E2 mama, Tom bien. And I was like, I've never heard of this. Is this really the 15 best number 15 of all the movies since 2025? So I look at it on IMDB cause it was made in 2001.

It's basically about two Mexican teenagers that go on a road trip and have a lot of sex and it shows a lot of sex. Like no longer do I.

Shawn (52:04.303)
boy. Hey, speak, speak.

Marc (52:05.428)
With things as back, 28 years later, there's a lot of zombie peen and bobs that you get to see.

Shawn (52:09.276)
Yeah, why is-

Matt (52:12.024)
You

Shawn (52:14.269)
That's I was gonna ask you, Mark. Why is 28 Years Later rated R?

Marc (52:18.158)
Yeah, it's zombie nudity.

Matt (52:24.389)
man. Hey, 98 % of this podcast was uplifting and good for people. And we're really happy you guys stuck with us all the way to the end, if in fact you're still with us. If you are, I promise we're going to have fun sometimes, but not all the times. We will help you know which movies to avoid though. We've given you some today. Avoid those ones. Let us know what you think everybody. Talk to you again next week.

Marc (52:34.12)
Sorry.

Marc (52:48.734)
Bye.