Matt (00:01.304)
Hello and welcome everybody to the RM podcast. It's good to have you back with us. Kind of a little bit we felt alone for a little while there as we were recording episodes and dropping them and nobody was showing up. Just kidding. That's not what happened. it was really Sean. If you guys know Sean well, he likes to sleep in and he's, he'd like did a who's the Rip Van Winkle. Sean pulled a Rip Van Winkle and he slept for the last two weeks. Right, Sean?

Sam D'Arc (00:01.455)
you

Sam D'Arc (00:09.398)
So.

Shawn (00:29.565)
Way to pull out a really relevant reference that everyone will know about.

Matt (00:31.246)
Well, listen, Sean and Sam insists that we have to say something about the election as much as I've tried to avoid talking about the 2024 election. Sam and Sean think we should. So,

Shawn (00:43.585)
You left the country for two weeks, you went on a cruise, you said, I'm never coming back, but you're back, so we're talking about it.

Matt (00:52.59)
I came back. Eventually the ship returns as it always does and we all had to return to real life and we can talk. I'm ready. I'm rejuvenated. I'm excited. I'm happy. I've processed what I need to process. So let's, let's talk about the presidential or we can talk about whatever you want to. Sean, what's your, what's your topic this week? Yeah. Okay.

Sam D'Arc (01:02.019)
Okay.

Shawn (01:04.225)
You

Shawn (01:12.385)
Are starting with the topics? Yeah, we'll find out if you're ready to process. My topic's really, really simple. I just want your opinions, both of you on why do you think Trump and the Republicans swept this election? Like, it's been interesting to hear all the different opinions. I'm very curious about what you both think. Why was it a sweep so decisively?

Sam D'Arc (01:26.421)
Okay.

Sam D'Arc (01:35.023)
Okay.

Matt (01:35.65)
Well, okay. You want to go first, Sam?

Sam D'Arc (01:38.871)
No, you start and I'll pick up from there.

Matt (01:41.12)
Okay. I'll just say this because again, I care about data, right? So, so first of all, I'll say this, Sean.

Shawn (01:47.297)
Wait, wait. Matt, do you care about the data, for example, like polling, like polls, that kind of data that like says something like, this is gonna be a neck and neck race, that kind of data do you care about? okay.

Matt (01:57.902)
It was a neck and neck race. That's a 50, yeah, hey listen. So this is, I'll explain this. Okay, first of all, look at the total number of votes that Donald Trump got. In 2016, he got 62 million votes. In 2020, he got 75 million votes. And in this election, he got 76 million votes. So Trump, right, the people that like Trump, they like Trump, they turned out to vote for Trump. I don't think anybody was surprised by that.

The difference in this election for president is that in 2020, Biden got 81 million votes and this time Kamala Harris got 73 million votes. So I don't think that there's anything decisive about that. Biden beat Trump by more in 2020 than Trump beat Biden by in this election.

Shawn (02:42.017)
All right, but math the question but Yeah, but that's true. That's true. But the question is Trump and Republicans Why did the Trump Trump and the Republican sweep because they did the house the Senate the majority of governors all a All of the swing states. My question is why do you think that house?

Sam D'Arc (02:48.398)
stuff.

Matt (02:53.604)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well.

Sam D'Arc (02:59.768)
So.

Matt (03:00.472)
So I said two years ago, Sean, when we first started this podcast, I told you that the Republicans were gonna control the House and the Senate after this election, and that's why I wanted a Democrat. Yeah, it's the Republicans.

Shawn (03:08.553)
Yeah, you absolutely did.

Sam D'Arc (03:10.852)
Wait, wait, that's actually, that's completely untrue. Two years ago, two years ago when we started this show, you said that we had witnessed the end of Republicans winning the presidency and of Republicans controlling government. You said that politics being what it was and you cited specific factors that meant the end of the Republican party and it's just simply not so. And here's what's interesting is you're fighting your

Matt (03:15.245)
No!

Matt (03:23.224)
Yes.

Shawn (03:28.512)
Ha

Sam D'Arc (03:40.357)
You're citing facts and figures that make it look like Trump A didn't win the popular vote, which he did. And that Trump, and that, and that Trump, do you know the only state where Harris did better this election than Biden did last election? Guess the one state. Utah. Utah. Utah.

Matt (03:47.234)
No, he did. I just said that.

Matt (04:00.558)
okay.

Shawn (04:03.068)
that's interesting. Well, that that

Matt (04:04.462)
It's really, none of that is interesting.

Sam D'Arc (04:08.369)
Here's what's interesting is this result shows that the Republicans and Trump have a clear mandate to do whatever they're about. Whatever, whatever. No, I'll answer it. I'll answer it. It is not a virtual tie. Trump won the popular vote. There is a clear mandate.

Matt (04:17.888)
Okay, okay, okay. Listen.

Shawn (04:19.199)
Okay, so neither of you have answered my question. Hang on, neither of you have answered.

Matt (04:24.182)
It's a tie, Sean. It's a virtual tie.

Matt (04:31.648)
Yes. Okay.

Sam D'Arc (04:33.721)
I think what this shows is the Democrats and Harris ran a horrible campaign. I think it shows they never found their voice and the public never fully trusted her. And I think it's also fair to say something that probably most people won't say. that's, I also feel like probably in the electorate, there's a little bit of sexism. think it's probably not, people aren't quite ready yet for a woman to be president.

Matt (04:39.05)
I agree with that. I agree with that.

Matt (04:44.334)
Okay?

Sam D'Arc (05:03.353)
That's probably not, it's probably not a popular view to have, but, but, but, but I believe that. And then I also think, you know, Trump, Trump's positives. So his base came out in full force. And then, and then there is a middle that we've always talked about that ended up going towards Trump because they were willing to bet on things being like it was during his first election or his first presidency.

Matt (05:03.629)
Yeah?

I think it's true.

Sam D'Arc (05:29.638)
versus the catastrophe or the catastrophizing that the Dems tried to take us down this current. The Democrats tried to make it look like Trump was the devil reincarnate and he just isn't. He's a person and an apocalypse now doesn't happen by him becoming president, which leads me into my topic, but we'll wait. No, no, no, I know. We'll wait a moment.

Matt (05:51.714)
Well, wait, wait. We're not there yet, Sam. We're not there. Listen, listen. It's really simple. The House of Representatives, the Republicans have basically the exact same number of seats that they had before the election.

Shawn (05:54.751)
Yeah, yeah, Sam gave his answer. I Matt's answer.

Shawn (06:04.671)
All that, Matt, all that, Matt, hang on, hang on, hang on. I'm not, Matt, I'm not saying, my question is not why did the Republicans win in a landslide? I didn't say that. I said sweep. Yeah, sweep meaning they won all of the swing states, they won the House, they won the Senate, they won the executive branch, they won the governors.

Sam D'Arc (06:05.679)
Majority,

Matt (06:13.255)
you said swept. Okay.

Yeah. No,

Sam D'Arc (06:20.817)
That's the same thing. That's the same thing.

Matt (06:21.184)
OK, well listen, Sean, they already have the House, right? So they have the House by the same margin they had before, so that's that's a virtual tie. The Senate they had Joe Manchin retire in West Virginia, so West Virginia was already going to flip to Republican and then they lost Montana. Pennsylvania, right? Maybe Bob Casey loses in Pennsylvania, but other than that, the Democrats are kind of holding the same seats that they had in the Senate before.

Shawn (06:44.537)
No, I know, now there's complete Republican power. My essence of my question, Matt, is why do you think the country went Republican? That's my question.

Matt (06:53.042)
so I think I, I think I started this at the beginning. Joe Biden got 81 million votes last time and Kamala Harris got 73 million votes this time. So Kamala Harris was not as popular this time as Joe Biden was four years ago. Or there's, or I would say, I would say there were, nine, eight million, there were 8 million, 8 million voters who voted for Joe Biden.

Shawn (07:02.379)
There's your answer. Okay, so your answer is, your answer is the...

Sam D'Arc (07:02.897)
Thanks.

Shawn (07:09.643)
Gotcha. That's okay. Good answer. That's a unique perspective.

Sam D'Arc (07:15.306)
She ran a horrible election. She ran a horrible.

Matt (07:21.838)
that chose to stay home on election day this year. And then that resulted in what you see in the election. I think the people who make these big like conclusions based on elections, oftentimes they have an agenda. And I think if you just look at the raw numbers, you can see, okay, Trump in his first term in office, he gained about 13 million new voters. But in that four year period between 2020 and now, he didn't really gain any new voters.

I would say like the Republican coalition isn't growing. It isn't becoming something more than what it was. But the Democrats were not able to persuade some people who voted last time to turn out and vote this time.

Shawn (08:03.785)
Okay, so you both answered pretty much the same thing. I'm gonna choose points here because it was kind of the same answer. I'm definitely giving it to Matt, Sam, because you threw in there an absurd, absurd statement that Americans are sexist and wouldn't vote for a woman for president. That's terrible, terrible. Not true.

Matt (08:17.986)
No, that's true though, Sean, that's true. Well, Sean, okay, you have to tell me then, Sean, 8 million voters who voted for Biden, why did they stay home this time?

Shawn (08:27.545)
Obviously, because she was a woman has nothing to do with she couldn't speak on camera. She had no policies. She was a ran a terrible campaign. She spent $20 million on celebrities who didn't even believe in her and said ridiculous things. They like I could give you the list of all the things that have nothing to do with her being a woman that made her fail.

Matt (08:45.376)
Okay. Okay. What if Joe Biden had stayed on the ticket and Kamala Harris was not the nominee. It was Joe Biden. Do you think that Joe Biden would have got more votes?

Shawn (08:55.039)
I have no idea. don't have a crystal ball. No one does. Who knows?

Matt (08:57.592)
But I think he would have. That's why I say sexism, because I think that more people would have turned out to vote for Joe Biden than turned out to vote for Kamala Harris.

Shawn (09:05.461)
Well then you both are getting points taken away from you because you're wrong. You're wrong. I get the points.

Matt (09:10.286)
Do you know who I think is if we're going to pick winners and losers in this election, do know who's the biggest loser in this election? George Clooney, George Clooney and his stupid op ed where he begged Joe Biden to step out of the race. He looks like a moron right now.

Shawn (09:26.273)
But Biden wouldn't have beaten Trump either. I know, I know, I do know.

Matt (09:29.506)
Who knows?

okay. mean, okay. You know, you know that the Trump, the Trump campaign ran this ad about Kamala Harris supporting transgender stuff for inmates in California. They ran that over and over and over again. And you, couldn't have run an ad like that with Joe Biden running for president. So I think there were some voters like these, these transgender issues, some of this stuff that was like a negative for Kamala Harris for some of these voters. I think.

Shawn (09:35.947)
There's no way.

Shawn (09:43.957)
Yeah, right, right,

Sam D'Arc (09:45.686)
Okay.

Shawn (09:54.713)
the

Matt (10:01.87)
And I, there are a number of people I talk to. I wouldn't say that they're Democrats, but I'd say they're kind of like independents. Kamala was never really able to win them over. And I think that they might have come election day said, you know what? I think I can vote for Biden again, cause they trust him. They know him and stuff like that. think Biden would have done better.

Shawn (10:21.203)
Okay, well, Sean gets the points.

Matt (10:23.786)
Okay. Sam, who do you think Biden would have done better than Kamala Harris?

Sam D'Arc (10:23.988)
Ha

Sam D'Arc (10:29.651)
I don't know. It's so tough. It's so tough to know after, after his debate performance, the debate performance probably would have gone into the night. They never would have done another one. mean, who, who, who knows? But, but I, I think it is sad that there is a, there, I sensed that, sexism plays a little bit into it. And then she just, she did not run, she did not run a great campaign. I mean, she did not get her message across. Her message did not,

Matt (10:32.631)
Yeah, it is.

Matt (10:40.909)
Yeah.

Sam D'Arc (10:59.348)
did not trend well. And listen, I have, I have experience in my business. came into, she came into, she touched our business at one point during her campaign. And, you know, the way that her staff and the, the, secret service interacted with our employees was awful. And, and, and I think you can tell someone's heart by the footprint they leave in a campaign.

And in that, at the moment that happened, that incident happened at our restaurant, in the Midwest, I've just sensed she would lose because you can't run across the country, throwing your weight around like that and not be, not, not, not be caring, courteous and interested in other people and, and, and, and do well. She just, she, I don't think she ever really had a chance. And it's interesting. It's easy to say that in retrospect, but.

because we all did think it would be a lot closer than it was. I was shocked at what a runaway election it was. And that's scary for what lies ahead.

Matt (12:03.788)
Yeah, think I did say I think I did say I think I did say that it could also not be close. It could easily not be close. just.

Sam D'Arc (12:12.585)
Yeah, but that's like, that's, that's like saying it could be close or it couldn't be close. mean, that's like saying it's a 50 50s chance. It's going to be one or the other. Well, no, no. Yeah.

Shawn (12:12.885)
But Matt, you... To defend...

Matt (12:19.128)
It's not.

Matt (12:23.854)
It's not like saying that, Sam. It's exactly saying that.

Shawn (12:28.129)
we do have episode proof, Matt, of you saying that you did predict, no, that the House and the Senate would go Republican, which is why you wanted a Democrat. Yeah, there was a lot of evidence. You did say that a lot.

Matt (12:32.874)
A Kamala would win Florida in a landslide.

Matt (12:39.546)
yeah, yeah I did say that.

Alright, so I'm going to give Sam the points. Sean, you might not like that I say that people are sexist, but I like that Sam said that and so he's getting my points. Good job, Sam. Alright, Sam, you're up.

Shawn (12:50.559)
Yeah, yeah, I knew it would.

Sam D'Arc (12:51.863)
So when you think about members of the church, there's something super interesting about this election. I am surprised in the wake of this election, how divisive who people voted for are within the church. There's always been a strong cross section within membership that is conservative Republican. We've long talked about that. There's also a strong cross section that is liberal Democrat.

Matt, you've leaned more in that direction through this campaign than probably at any point in your history. And there were a lot, yeah, in your life, there are a lot of people that were very anti-Trump. And I think that's one of the reasons why the state of Utah had a higher percent go down than it had ever gone down in the history of the state of Utah. Not that it matters, because Utah was always going to vote Republican, that it was never a question.

Matt (13:26.455)
in my entire life.

Sam D'Arc (13:47.33)
But here's what's fascinating. There are podcasts out there for members of the church today. Inside Out is a good example. Jim Bennett, whose dad was a Senator for Utah for many years, conservative Republican. He sings in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. He's a conservative but progressive voice. And he was vehemently anti-Trump through the campaign.

And if you listen to his most recent episode, he goes on a rant for about a half an hour talking about how disappointed he is in members of the church for having voted for Trump and how he questions basically the moral decision-making of membership in making that choice and the future of the country. It is a super, super dark episode. And it's interesting, after I heard that and listened to that episode, I started to think,

Shawn (14:28.413)
Wow. Jeez.

Sam D'Arc (14:41.164)
What, what do, where have we gone as a country? Like, and I started to think what is our obligation? So Trump is now in office, right? And, we actually have one of the most challenging situations I think that could exist. Republicans have the executive, they've got the house, they have the Senate, and they easily, you can argue also have the Supreme Court. And many people would say, Matt, you're a poli sci professor.

that you really don't want one party to have total control over everything ever, right? Because it's too easy for that party to get something done. And whether you agree or not, Trump, having won the popular vote for the first time in so many years, after it being such a sweeping, crushing win, and it's shocking everybody how solidly the win was, he has a mandate to make changes now that he probably didn't have before. So here's my question.

What is our responsibility as members of the church or even just, you know, Christians, even just good human beings as, citizens of the United States of America? now that Trump is president, where, where do we go from here? and, I'm curious for both of your take, and then I have, I have my own viewpoint on this. So, Sean, do you want Matt, do you want to go first? Okay.

Matt (16:04.216)
So I'm going to go to scripture because Sean usually does that and people think he's so righteous. So I'll do it first. Doctrine and Covenants section 134 verse 5. We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments.

Shawn (16:11.999)
I hope.

Sam D'Arc (16:12.642)
Do it. Do it.

Sam D'Arc (16:28.449)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (16:28.554)
and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected and should be punished accordingly. then verse 6, we believe that every man should be honored in his station and then that we should respect the laws. But then it also says that we believe that when the government is impeding on the rights of individuals, that individuals have the right to rebel and protest against those actions. So

Sam D'Arc (16:40.696)
Mm-hmm.

Sam D'Arc (16:56.227)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (16:56.504)
I think it's really clear what we're supposed to do, right? We respect the people who are elected to office in their stations, but if they do things that violate our rights or violate our liberties, we exercise our constitutional privileges to protest and fight against that. And while it is true that Republicans have control of the House, the Senate, and the executive branch, it's not true that every Republican is united on every issue.

And it's not true that they have strong enough majorities that they could really just do anything they want to do. so citizens who disagree with those policies have every right and probably a responsibility to make their voices heard and to do what they can to stop policies that they think are bad. But you always uphold and support the elected officials.

Sam D'Arc (17:24.441)
Correct.

Sam D'Arc (17:42.745)
Correct. So, Sean, I like that.

Shawn (17:45.279)
Yeah, I mean, I like what you said. Like, for example, Matt Gaetz being nominated for attorney general. I don't I hope that the Republicans cancel that dude and don't get, they don't nominate him. Like, I agree. Like, that'd be nice to see that it's not all. Yeah, they don't have all the power. There's going to be some infighting and it'll slow some things down. But I'll actually go back to Matt. When you originally told us what how you were preparing for this election, you said that the Sunday thereof before you were getting on a boat, you were going to fast and pray.

You didn't reveal what you were going to fast and pray about, but that was good. As you Sam do, and as Matt, you do inspire me. was like, I'm to do the same. And it was interesting because after fasting and praying, the feeling that I got was a lot of peace about supporting whomever the country votes. there's, I was ready if Harris Scott became president to support her and to be excited and to pray for her and to hope she does really well.

And the same for Trump. I didn't vote for Trump. I don't like the dude, but I think he'll be better for the country, but I'm going to pray. I want that to be good. I like your, what to do next, Sam? I think it's, it's, yeah, it's pray that these guys don't do anything crazy. And it's also pray that they have wisdom. I like in the scriptures when the Lord praised Solomon because he said, Hey, ask me for whatever you want. And what Solomon asked for was wisdom. So I pray that these guys will have wisdom to do the right things in Ukraine and everywhere else. What do think, Sam?

Matt (19:12.814)
But I want to say something else, Sam, about the members of the church who are attacking other members of the church for voting for Trump. And Jana Reese likens it to Hitler and people who supported the Nazis. I just think it's really, yeah, I think it's really important to contextualize voting, right? I talked before about how in 2016, Trump got 62 million votes.

Sam D'Arc (19:13.242)
Okay. Okay.

Sam D'Arc (19:26.021)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. As does Bennett.

Matt (19:40.332)
and in 2020 he got 75 million votes. That means there's 13 million people that liked what he did in his first term of office enough that they decided to vote in the next election when they hadn't previously. there are a core group of individuals who support Trump and there are, I would say maybe a third, if it's even that high of Trump supporters support everything that he does, I'd say a majority of the people who vote for Trump have things they like and things that they don't like.

and to pick the worst qualities of Trump and to suggest that Trump supporters voted for him in support of his worst qualities. That's like not intellectually honest. That's a wrong thing to do. And so you should never criticize a person for voting for the person they voted for because we all have a right to make that judgment on our own and we all have our own reasons for doing it. And it's wrong to like lump people into a certain category when you don't even know why they did it.

Shawn (20:35.659)
Hear hear. Yeah.

Sam D'Arc (20:37.146)
Yes. So, so, so bad. I'm going to give you I'm going to give you my take. Are you are you both ready for this? Are you both ready for this? I'm gonna I know I'm going to shock you. I'm going to shock you with something. The week before the days before the month before I did not fast and pray about this election. I acted and what I acted. What here's what I did as I acted.

Matt (20:44.396)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you voted for him, Sam. And so maybe you're

Shawn (20:45.515)
Go Sam, go Sammy.

Matt (20:59.982)
Sam D'Arc (21:06.275)
Matt, watch this. I voted. I voted my conscience. I told other people why I was voting my conscience. And I am proud to have voted the way I voted. And my vote wasn't for an individual. It was for a philosophy. It was for a party. And I am totally confident that the results of this election are going to ultimately be policy that will better us as a country.

and set us up for success now and into the future. However, I will also tell you there are elements and aspects and ideas that I hear from that administration every now and again, where you're like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. That won't work. That'll be harmful and that'll hurt people. One example are elements of the immigration policy, right? And as a member of a church, as a human being,

Matt (21:56.158)
my heavens.

Sam D'Arc (22:01.894)
Here's our responsibility. Here's what we have to do. We have to, having voted, just like we do in church when you raise your hand and you sustain someone, I have a responsibility as a human being to continue to shape how that ultimately looks because I voted him in. So I've got to give my opinion. I've got to support causes. I've got to give input. I've got to be out talking. Donald Trump and the entire administration care about

polling. They care about opinion, probably more than any other campaign or any other politician we've seen in a long time. His administration will be shaped severely by polling and by public opinion. He wants to be popular. He wants to leave a legacy. And so that's my take. My take is, is that my job, first of all, was to act by voting. And then second of all is having one

It's to be active and engaged in helping to develop the policy that ultimately benefits the country. Struggling my shoulders and running into the streets and shouting and screaming about how terrible it was. I saw these people on TikTok the next day that had to take a week off work because they were so disturbed and emotionally distraught by the results of the election. Give me a break. Like have people bought so much into the catastrophizing, whether members of the church or not, that they believe that crap? Like that's insane.

Matt (23:29.368)
Well, Sam, I'm not giving you the points because you are under the disillusion that your vote matters. And I can't support that kind of thinking.

Shawn (23:36.641)
You there? We lost Matt?

Matt (23:39.844)
Did you lose me? Am I back?

Sam D'Arc (23:41.563)
Yeah, just say it again. You're back. Just say it again.

Matt (23:43.936)
Yeah, I can't give you points Sam because you're under the disillusion that your vote actually matters and I can't support that kind of thinking.

Sam D'Arc (23:49.765)
No, no. Hey, listen to this. Listen to this. My vote in this election mattered as much as you raising your hand and sustaining a church leader matters in church. And I voted for the exact same reason you raise your hand and sustain that leader. It's not because you're going to change the results of that leadership choice. It's because ultimately I, as a voter and as a citizen, as a human being,

have a responsibility to support and sustain and change and influence and direct the policy that ultimately comes from him. I actually have more accountability and responsibility having voted for Trump to help shape that administration than you probably do, Matt. But I would also argue that it's on you for not having voted in the first place and not understanding the...

Matt (24:35.534)
Then I'm going to hold you to that.

Yeah, that's right. It would have mattered so much.

Sam D'Arc (24:43.83)
It would matter because it shows that you either believe or not and if she were voted in I'd be coming to you asking for you to do the same with her, right? It doesn't matter that you sustain someone in church, does it? It's the same idea, I think, actually.

Shawn (24:59.145)
Interesting take Sam. That's interesting.

Matt (24:59.416)
Well then, then Sam, this is like, this is why the TikTok people are so upset because they sustained Kamala Harris and now she's not the leader and they, they, they wrote it to not sustain Trump and now he's the guy they have to try to sustain. So I don't know. I think you're.

Sam D'Arc (25:06.099)
Duh.

Sam D'Arc (25:11.451)
Right.

Shawn (25:14.795)
So Matt, you're saying allow these people, Sam, don't get angry at these people for being so upset. They put their voice out there like you did. They took action and they didn't get their way. So allow them, allow them to be upset.

Matt (25:19.009)
Yeah.

Matt (25:26.36)
I can-

Sam D'Arc (25:26.399)
All right, fine. Let them have an emotional support day. Let them have some universal basic income so they can go self-actualize. I'm a little irritated that Matt, as a friend of ours, refused to vote. You should have voted.

Matt (25:31.608)
Sam. Sam. Sam, the Republican, the Republican party.

The Republican party is still going through the stages of grief from the 2020 election. I think we can allow the Democrats like a couple of weeks. I still have people in denial about 2020.

Shawn (25:46.56)
You

Sam D'Arc (25:47.603)
Ha! Ha ha ha!

Shawn (25:50.475)
Hahaha

Matt (25:55.648)
Okay, well,

Shawn (25:56.348)
that's good. That's good. I'm well, I'm...

Sam D'Arc (25:58.207)
That was less my point than the other side, but yes.

Matt (26:02.56)
Okay, my topic is not about the election.

Shawn (26:05.025)
But I'm gonna give the-

Matt (26:09.336)
Go ahead, Sean.

Shawn (26:09.875)
Okay, no points. No points on this one. Okay. No, no, no, points. That's okay. All right, no points.

Matt (26:12.398)
All right. Okay. Okay. Doctor, listen, Sean, I am so excited because I was reading the scriptures and it doesn't always happen, but I was reading the scriptures and I was like, I know Sean believes in canonized stuff. And so I've got to throw this out there for Sean to. Yeah. Okay. Doctrine and Covenants section one 35 verse seven. You can tell where I was reading in my scriptures because all my verses come from two chapters. Okay. Last, the last one I was in.

Shawn (26:17.611)
What's your topic, Matt?

Shawn (26:27.987)
I like this. This is good, man.

Matt (26:41.528)
D &C 134. Okay, now we're the next chapter. Okay, it says, this is talking about the martyrdom of Joseph Smith and Hiram Smith. It says, were innocent of any crime as they had often been proved before and were only confined in jail by the conspiracy of traitors and wicked men. And their innocent blood on the floor of the Carthage jail is a broad seal affixed to Mormonism that cannot be rejected by any court on earth. And so my question is,

Joseph Smith and Hiram Smith's blood is a testament to Mormonism. What obligation do we have to defend that term in the modern era? Sean?

Shawn (27:21.781)
Let me rephrase the question, because you might have skipped out there. You said if Joseph Smith and Hyman Smith's blood is a testament to Mormonism, canonize that canonized word, what obligation do we have to defend that term in the modern era? That's your question. Wow. Sam, do you want to take a shot before, I think that's aimed towards me. Do you want to?

Matt (27:29.229)
Yes.

Yeah.

Matt (27:34.956)
Yes, yes.

Yeah. No, no, no, Sean, you're first. You're first, Canon eyes, scripture man.

Shawn (27:44.449)
I love that you brought canonized scripture. And good for you for finding the word Mormonism in canonized scripture. I forgot that that was even in there. I had no recollection of the word Mormonism actually being in there. So proud of you, Matt. Good job for bringing scripture. It makes me, sometimes you do. I mean, it honestly does make me look at it and go,

Sam D'Arc (27:45.17)
Matt (28:03.608)
Thank you, thank you. Sometimes I read my scriptures.

Shawn (28:13.437)
Okay, the word Mormonism. Now, I have to analyze obviously what the prophet said, and he specifically said, there's also scripture that says, I the Lord have a church, and that church should be called by the name that I give it, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And so the prophet's admonition was, don't call the church the Mormon church, call it the church that the Lord has given. Now, the prophet did go a little further and say, why don't we stop using the word Mormon instead of,

Matt (28:29.23)
Mm-hmm.

Shawn (28:42.101)
unless it's referring to the Book of Mormon. Yeah, I mean, it's a good question, Matt. Like you said, you guys both, Sam and you pointed out that President Hinckley was very much for the word Mormonism. He said, let's build good identity around

Matt (28:55.168)
And John Taylor seems to know what Mormonism is when he talks about it in the scriptures.

Shawn (29:00.181)
What do you think he thinks it means?

Matt (29:02.04)
Mormonism is the movement. Mormonism is everything. So the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormonism is the movement. It's the people. It's the community, the culture. Right, Sam?

Shawn (29:11.105)
Yeah, man, that's, I've heard, I can.

Sam D'Arc (29:17.107)
Yes. Correct.

Shawn (29:17.953)
Yeah, I completely forgot that this was in here. And so you make me think that's a great way to do it, Matt. If you want me to reconsider one of your ideas, show me a scripture where I'm wrong. Yeah, I'm definitely going to really study this, Matt, and open my brain to, maybe Mormonism is a God-inspired word that means something. And I can also be obedient to the prophet by not saying, hey, our church is the Church of Mormon or the Mormon Church. It's not. I won't say that.

Matt (29:19.223)
Yeah.

Matt (29:28.682)
I love it. So, yeah.

Matt (29:44.8)
Right, that's right.

Shawn (29:45.641)
It's the Church of Jesus Christ, it's His Church. We are Latter-day Saints within His Church. There's maybe a movement called Mormonism. But let me study it a little bit, I'll get back to you. I'm glad, thank you for bringing scripture, dude. Awesome.

Matt (29:47.959)
Yes.

Matt (29:54.988)
Yeah. If they.

Sam D'Arc (29:56.127)
Wait, Matt, are you going to allow him to give that response? Let me study it a little bit and I'll get back to you. That's not what we do here. Yeah. No, you, you, you've got to take a position on this. This is not, this is not a call it, call it in later. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt (30:02.402)
Hahaha

Shawn (30:10.547)
Well, my position is fine. Okay. Okay. My position. That's fine. My position is Matt has shown me in, in revealed scripture that the word Mormonism is okay to use. So bam, I'm okay to use it. Now what I'm going to study is where else, if anywhere is the word Mormon or Mormonism referred to in scripture so I can take the whole of scripture and build it into context. But if there isn't any place, if this is the only one and only, then yeah, I mean, John Taylor was a prophet.

Matt (30:14.306)
This is how we close the sale.

Shawn (30:39.713)
And this is Canaanite scripture. So there you go, Sam, I took a stance. I'm willing to be more open to the word Mormonism than because of scripture.

Matt (30:40.002)
He sure was. Yeah.

Matt (30:47.182)
Isn't that great? Listen, I don't even care about the 2024 election. This is the happiest day of 2024. Like who could be sad when something like this has happened? Right Sam? This is good.

Shawn (30:54.209)
Ha

Sam D'Arc (30:58.457)
So.

I think you have totally caved in your life and in your world that it shows how desperate things have become after the election for you personally that you're willing to take this as a win. But yes, I celebrate it alongside you, yes.

Matt (31:12.463)
You

Matt (31:19.918)
Okay, well, we took a little break from election talk to talk about Mormonism for a second, because I thought it would be fun, but we're going to end with Mormonism talk. So, or not Mormonism, election talk. Okay, so the big question, we're going to say where we were right and where we were wrong about the 2024 election. So, everyone's going to think of their own where they were right, because I know Sam's going to tell me lots of places where I was wrong, but I want to, yeah, only one, only one.

Sam D'Arc (31:31.487)
Yes.

Shawn (31:42.899)
One each. Yeah, you get one each, Sam, one each.

Sam D'Arc (31:48.543)
we're saying it about each other or about ourselves.

Matt (31:50.894)
about our...should we be...I want to...about ourselves!

Shawn (31:53.057)
About each other. Yeah, yeah. What you thought was, what you got right, Sam, and what you got wrong, one thing each, Yeah.

Sam D'Arc (31:55.423)
Yeah, yeah.

Matt (32:00.8)
Yeah that's right. I'll go first. Okay you go first Sam.

Sam D'Arc (32:02.712)
So, okay. Well, I mean, I, I, I clearly, chose Trump. I came out very early and he won. I was wrong in, in, I thought it would be a closer, a closer election. thought the results would be a lot more narrow than they were. And I was shocked at how, how sweeping it is. mean, I guess that's, that's what I got wrong. Yeah.

Matt (32:26.518)
I like it. You guys are putting in my hands. You're putting right into my hands. can't wait till I'm going to go last on this one. This is perfect. Sean, you go next.

Sam D'Arc (32:33.795)
Go for it. Go for it. Go for it.

Shawn (32:33.953)
You want me to go first or second?

You dork. All right, I was right that the Democrats ran the worst candidate and the worst campaign in my lifetime. I was right about that because it was evident. It was self-evident. It was so bad.

Matt (32:46.104)
No, come on. Al Gore, Al Gore was a worse candidate.

Shawn (32:52.333)
I, this was worse. This was way worse. This was way worse. I can pick another one, Matt, if you want. I was all right. Fine, Matt. I was right. That, that Doge would be absolutely incredible. The department of government efficiency cut, cut, cut is going to be awesome. All right. I was wrong about the way that many Democrat leaders in the media would respond. I'm actually quite shocked at the humility that so many

Sam D'Arc (32:53.2)
no, not not true. Not true. Not true.

Matt (32:55.911)
Walter Mondale wasn't worse.

Matt (33:10.516)
jeez.

Shawn (33:21.857)
pundits and political leaders have come out with such humility and instead of making excuses, they've come out and instead said, okay, we're listening to the American people. I think we got this wrong. Acasio-Ortiz, for goodness sake, comes out and is like, okay, I gotta rethink some of these stances I take. I'm gonna take my pronouns off of my social media handles. Like I better rethink this. Well, she didn't say that, she just did. She dropped all of her...

Sam D'Arc (33:25.64)
All right.

Matt (33:36.609)
Yeah.

Matt (33:44.152)
She said that? AOC said that? Wow.

Shawn (33:50.433)
pronouns off of all of our social media. So I was wrong that they would be excuse, excuse, excuse. I'm actually very impressed by the democratic leaders who are kind of taking this as a message and they're starting to change their preachings.

Sam D'Arc (34:04.313)
I actually agree with you on that, Sean. Like there was, there was a certain amount of arrogance from the Democrats coming into this election where it was very much telling everybody else how they should be and kind of looking down if they weren't that way. And I, and I think they were corrected by this election. And it is interesting. I think there is an amount of humility that they've had to eat as they've eaten crow.

So I agree.

Matt (34:28.568)
Well, speaking of humility, I was right that Trump would fill the government with morons as we've seen with his appointments so far. Really? RFK Jr. to head health and human services? The man has no experience in that field at all. Right? He's just an activist.

Shawn (34:35.666)
Hahaha

Sam D'Arc (34:38.505)
my goodness. Yeah.

Shawn (34:39.893)
Matt, isn't that a matter of opinion? That's your opinion. Awesome. That's gonna be great.

Sam D'Arc (34:49.968)
Do you? Yeah, do you? But by the way, don't even get me started on what by who Biden put in different roles in the level of experience they had those roles. You really want to end on that? Like experience experience is not a qualifier for some of these government.

Shawn (34:50.857)
He does have experience in that field.

Matt (34:59.598)
I was no that was where I was right I was right that we put as director of national intelligence somebody who questions the intelligence community in the United States and somebody I'm not going to say that she's a foreign asset of the Russian government but I will say she she's not somebody I want having all of our nation's secrets

Shawn (35:00.767)
Yeah, come on Matt, come on.

Sam D'Arc (35:13.133)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn (35:16.031)
Yes, shake it up man, shake it up.

Sam D'Arc (35:20.773)
So.

Shawn (35:27.209)
Hey Sam, remember my comment about I thought that the Dems would be very humble? I take it back. Now I see them whining and making excuses and pointing fingers.

Sam D'Arc (35:27.416)
Matt (35:31.054)
I'm just saying I was right about that. where I was wrong, I thought that there was going to be a civil war of some kind, but I was pleasantly surprised by the Democrats. They did not do the election denial stuff that the Republicans did last time. No, it's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam D'Arc (35:32.569)
Yeah.

Sam D'Arc (35:36.047)
But, no.

Shawn (35:38.176)
No you weren't.

Sam D'Arc (35:44.023)
I did too. Actually.

Shawn (35:51.675)
my gosh, Matt. No.

Sam D'Arc (35:52.941)
No, you're right. You're right. That is 100 % true. You got to give them props.

Shawn (35:57.725)
Actually, that's not true. Did you not see today? The top Democrat leaders came out and said, hey, we admit that we did cheat on that last election and Trump in fact is the president. Now he can't be the third, because this would be a third run. No, I'm just kidding. They didn't.

Matt (36:01.57)
What? Earth?

Sam D'Arc (36:09.185)
No, they did not.

Matt (36:13.978)
did they? Who said that? okay. That would be a very interesting take. Trump just finished his second term. What are you talking about? Biden was a robot the whole time. So I'm going to just say, like, I have great respect for all of my friends that are Democrats and for all of the Democratic leaders who are in pain and are sad and are upset and didn't choose election denial and all of that stuff and all the crazy things the Republicans did last time.

Shawn (36:22.241)
Yeah, we cheated, we cheated. He legitimately won that second one.

Sam D'Arc (36:23.013)
Hmm.

So.

Matt (36:42.306)
They accepted defeat, which is an important part of the democratic process. You can't have a democratic system unless people are willing to accept defeat. And so I was wrong when I thought there would be violence because the Democrats certainly didn't do that. See, that was good. All right. Say I was listening to our last episode, not the one where you guys made fun of me leaving the country, but the last episode where Sam was like, this was a mediocre episode.

Sam D'Arc (36:52.741)
Mm.

Shawn (36:57.665)
Yeah, that's true. That was good.

Sam D'Arc (36:59.211)
I agree.

Matt (37:11.864)
This one was adequate. Sam, this one was pretty good, right? We did a good job.

Sam D'Arc (37:12.229)
Hmph. Hmph.

Matt (37:23.032)
Some...

Shawn (37:23.211)
Sammy, you're wrong, man. Not only was that last one actually quite a good episode, this one was hot. This is good.

Sam D'Arc (37:28.655)
Really?

Matt (37:29.686)
I'm every episode from now on, Sam, I'm going to be motivated to have Sam at the end be like, this one gets an A, so we're not there.

Shawn (37:36.001)
Sam, I've been actually really anxious to hear both of your takes on many of the things I just learned from both of you. This was a great episode.

Sam D'Arc (37:36.389)
Thanks

Matt (37:41.87)
Yeah, that was fun. Hey, listener.

Sam D'Arc (37:42.821)
C minus a pest, C minus a pest.

Shawn (37:45.404)
Hahaha

Matt (37:48.194)
Hey, listener, as long as you give us an A, that's all that matters to us. We'll talk to you again next week.

Sam D'Arc (37:57.5)
Hang on, I got to figure out how to turn this off. One moment. One moment. And we're clear. That's fun. That's fun. Hey, listen to Bennett's deal. It is fascinating.

Shawn (38:00.737)
You